Ecclesiastical Discipline asks via Blog Azeroth when it’s ok to let someone die?

A healer / tank / etc should let someone die whenever they deem it appropriate.

When I was a young healer / tank I’d try to save everyone, over time I’ve become jaded and realized some people just aren’t worth saving. (Like in that song.)

There are a number of reasons why I might let someone die (as a tank) or downshift their triage priority (as a healer/decurser/cc) often resulting in their death. My main reasons for not helping someone is that the person needing help is either being bad, they’re a megadouche, or they’re jumping up and down on my very last nerve, or all of the above.

Before I continue, I’d like to define “bad”: I believe there’s a difference between a bad and an inexperienced player. I almost always take the time to explain things to the inexperienced and understand there will be a learning curve and it may take doing something correctly a few times before it clicks. Inexperienced folks will take advice and do better, bads will freak out, ignore, or argue with advice, keep doing the same stupidity over and over, and never get better. If I’m calling someone bad, it means I’ve already tried to help and it didn’t work.

I tend to be less helpful towards:

  • Meter Spammers and generally cocky players for jumping up and down on my very last nerve: You topped the meters on Northrend Beasts, but you were dead last on Snobolds. What does that mean? It means you still suck and you’re still bad. You have agro? I’m not taunting. Awww. You have curse of Tupor? That’s too bad, I just accidentally dragged my decurse key off my bars. Standing in the shit and yelling for heals while you pad your meters? I’m sorry, I don’t heal stupid. If you’re dead, you don’t top the meters and therefore can’t stroke your epeen. By resisting my urge to save other people and letting you die, mostly due to your own mistakes, I’m mercifully sparing everyone from having to endure yet another episode of your egotistical exhibitionist e-masturbation.
  • The Weakest Link for being bad: I know you. You started out inexperienced or undergeared or you’re someone’s alt that knows the fights but was learning your class. You’ve now had ample time to learn now but you’re still standing in the stupid and doing it wrong. You’re in good gear but my alt in blues is outDPSing you. You’re always the one taking excess damage on everything. You spend a good portion of time face-tanking the floor already. I could sit by and heal you and watch over you and baby you, but I know you’ll fail at avoiding Sindragosa’s frost bombs and die as soon as I get icetombed. What’s the point in wasting my mana to save you? Your computer is probably better than my ancient dinosaur, if I can get out of the stupid at less than 10fps, you can too.If you fail you can just enjoy the repair bill. Consider it taxes on being carried.
  • Situationally Unaware Lowbie Who Never Reads Chat for being bad: I take the time to explain things to you in randoms. I say, “You see those green oozes? Kite them, don’t let them hit you or you’ll probably get gibbed.” “See those oozes? When they die they make a puddle of gas, if you stand in it, you’ll die.” No, really. Move it. I know, the corpses are sparkling but the gas will kill you. Move your toon and and wait. Hey move!
    Situationally Unaware Lowbie has died.
    I told you so.
  • Pulls Before Tank for being bad: Mr. DPS, if you run in and pull something then you’re stupid. If you open up before the mob the tank pulled reaches them and you pull agro then you’re impatient and stupid. I don’t heal stupid. I’m going to let you die, respect your tank and let them do their jobs.
  • Taunting DPS for being bad: Did you see that in party chat? It’s called “Who Taunted”, and it’s calling you out for taunting off of the tank. That’s right, Hand of Reckoning is a taunt, Mr. Ret Paladin. I’m sorry, Mr. DPS Warrior, other classes can tank too. Stop doing that. You’re not going to? It’s ok, I’ll just let the boss gib you when you taunt it off the tank. Keep it up and I’ll votekick you.
  • Dances with Rankwatch for being bad: My rankwatch has been sending you messages for the past two hours. Why haven’t you updated your bars between pulls? Do you like the spam? Why haven’t you ported out to train skills? There’s been plenty of downtime. A simple, “Hey guys, I forgot something in my bank, can you summon me?” during a raid’s loot cycle will due and few will know you went to train your skills. Those that know you’re downranking will probably be happy you fixed the problem. Your continued refusal to go fix your problem means you’re not carrying your own weight. My mana is better used on people who do.
  • Ungemmed and Unenchanted for being bad: I know sometimes someone might forget to enchant/gem a new piece, maybe you just got it. But if all of your stuff is unenchanted and ungemmed then you shouldn’t be in a 25 man ICC or any raid. You have no respect for anyone’s time, I’m going to save my mana for people who care and pull their own weight.
  • Stacks the Wrong Stats for being bad: Hunter with expertise gems? Spellpower DK? Spirit and MP5 stacking Healadin? Parry gems? Really? You haven’t researched your class and role at all, you haven’t got a clue, and you’re wasting everyone’s time, not pulling your own weight, and gimping yourself.
  • Gearscore Whores for jumping up and down on my very last nerve: You come into a raid and talk about Gearscore. You nitpick others gear and complain, sometimes about me. Oh noes, that holy priest has a blue quality alchemist trinket. Baaaaaaw. She also two-healed the first wing of ICC10, including heroic lootship without issue so shove it. See player with low gearscore wearing my guild tag or the tag of another reputable guild on our server? They’re going to blow you out of the water because they’re an alt of a skilled and experienced player. Unlike you, a stranger who tries to justify your presence with Gearscore, I know that player won’t stand in the stupid. People are progressing in ICC wearing all blues, who really cares about Gearscore?

If you want to live then stay out of the stupid, let others do their jobs, respect others enough to gem, enchant, and L2P, and leave your meters, GS, and ego at the door.

16 Comments on Live and let die

  1. Echo says:

    “By resisting my urge to save other people and letting you die, mostly due to your own mistakes, I’m mercifully sparing everyone from having to endure yet another episode of your egotistical exhibitionist e-masturbation.”

    I laughed hard. I generally only link if anyone has done something incredible, to show who’s dispelling/interupting or to show damage done on specific targets.

    I’ve been considering turning on the grid ignore function so I can mark the people who aren’t worth the heal. I still maintain this is all because heroics are too easy and people don’t have to learn on the way up anymore.

    We repeatedly wiped on anub25 the other day, normal mode but the pug tanks were being stupid and all trying to take anub and letting the adds eat dps who were opening up on them too early etc etc. I even had the other ret paladin chew me out on my GS when:
    1) I organised the run, I’m holy and jumped into my offspec ret spot to let another hpally guildie come. The raid has around 10 of my guildies to prop it up.
    2) I’m still doing better dps than you, AMing when there’s heavy raid damage I can prevent, HoPing clothies, sacred shielding, using my stun/incapicitate and even saving the tanks on 2 different occasions on the run with lay on hands and I’m still alive at end of every fight.

  2. Saga says:

    I can only agree with just about everything you said. I try to be understanding of new people – but if they keep doing the same mistake over and over and over, they’re obviously not even trying.

    Can’t stand GS people who judge people by numbers rather than giving them a chance. Please do let them die ;)

  3. Rust says:

    Completely understand where you’re coming from. Gearscore, I must admit, I do run, but for a completely different purpose than most people do. I find Gearscore to be a helpful tool in class building (as I level a new character, or am helping a person gear up their own gear). I’ll post about it on my blog later (two instances this week with GS, on good, one not so good).

    I just don’t understand why people play a game, and don’t take the time to understand the mechanics of it.

  4. Zan says:

    I don’t know how you’d use Gearscore to understand class building, or what that even means. You see, high Gearscore does not necessarily mean that the person is good or doing it right. A DK stacking spellpower may still have a high Gearscore but they still need to be hit by a clue-by-four.

    I reserach classes to see what stats I should stack. Elitist Jerks is great for this, as is WOWPopular. Ratingsbuster shows me, without any extra keystrokes, what stats I gain or lose with each particular item I come across. Just because loot has a higher item level doesn’t mean it’s superior.

    I was looking at the iLeve264 Healadin chest piece. It’s pretty crappy compared to my 251.

    For rotations, again, I check Elitist Jerks and also check out World of Logs parses. I take a look at the top players using the specs I’m playing on a tank-and-spank fight, filter the log to just see what they’re doing and in what order (I also look to see how well they’re doing things like keeping up their dots). I examine their gears and gems and specs as well. Monkey see monkey do.

  5. Rust says:

    First, you know I’m not one that goes about flaunting his GS, or generally stating that he is better than others. I gear up to be a better tank/dps/whatever for the groups I play with. For me, WoW is all about pitting yourself against a good challenge in the fellowship of comrades and friends.

    On the high gearscore, I completely agree with you. In the end, gearscore doesn’t matter as well as the player within. As I stated before, I use GS in game, and I recently came across another DK Tank proclaiming that he thought he had the highest, or among the highest GS for Frost Tanks in the realm. Naturally, I was interested in this person, being of a similar build, and thought I may have someone I could talk to about frost tanking. This person did have a higher gearscore than I did, but by one point. It was pointed out that he wasn’t even in the top ten on WoWHeroes, which I also checked. Yep, he wasn’t in the top ten, but I was.

    About his gear: He had ICC gear, not T10. For a DK Tank, T10 is THE best gear that you can get. I’m not sure why he decided to go without T10, but he obviously has been in ICC, and knows the fights (some of the gear came from Blood Wing, ect). When I reached the 4 piece T10, my tanking rotation changed, as to add the extra damage mitigation into my normal rotation, using it whenever its cooldown was up.

    As for my previous comment on character building, I was refering to how it looks at stats, and flags the stats in red that are below current raid standards (hit rating, expertise, and so forth). It also gives a quick list of gem slots and enchants that are missing (if any). Not an end all solution, but for me a quick one stop place where I can look and see a good amount of data at once.

    Last week, I was on an alt (my enchanter), and in a TotC with a friend who recently started to tank. I /gs’d him, and was able to give him new enchants for his new gear on the spot.

    As for the researching, I do my best to do that as well. I’ll look into Ratingsbuster, sounds interesting. Thanks Zan!

  6. Echo says:

    “I was looking at the iLeve264 Healadin chest piece. It’s pretty crappy compared to my 251″

    @Zan – Rot resistant breastplate or are you referring to the tier set? Also what’s your 251?

  7. Strawberry says:

    Gearscore scores you based on how you’re gemmed and enchanted, as well as item level. The overall GS and the GS for each spec available to your class can (and do) vary.


    Resto shaman running all haste/MP5 Ench/gem would have a 99% Resto GS, a 7X% GS for Ele, and a 5X% GS for Enhancement. How much have you actually looked at the addon?

    I was also wondering: How would anyone in your guild blow anyone out of the water if you’re 10/12 ICC 10 with a 25% buff active months after the content has been released? Or do you guys just try really really hard and slop your way through things?

    Also still: since you’re talking so much smack, do you provide links publicly to your blog? Or are you just running off about how amazing you are where no one can see it and retaliate?


  8. Zan says:

    I’m currently using iLevel251 holy paladin tier chest piece. My research has indicated that the four piece paladin tier 10 holy set bonus isn’t actually worth getting. (I could try it out myself but I don’t like the idea of the stat losses I’d take.) I was considering getting the 264 non-set frost badge chestpiece instead… then I looked at it and realized it had mana/5+crit on it instead of that delicious haste I like so much. I found the Meteor Chasers Raiment to be far more attractive in terms of itemization.

  9. Zan says:

    You seem to percieve frank statements as ‘talking smack’ and ‘boosting one’s own ego’. That is not the case.

    My first experience with a frothing gearscore tool was when I was running an open 25 man ICC and we got this mouth breathing resto shaman who was stacking crit. The first thing he did when he got in the instance was to spam his little recount gearscore thing. He proceeded to lecture our Resto Shaman on why he should use crit instead of haste. He also carried on about the number of females in our vent to which our many raid ladies replied with “Girls don’t play wow. I’m a 12 year old boy.”"I have a hormone disorder.”"Girls? Where?” He was pretty much dead last on the healing charts… and he also wasn’t following his healing assignment.

    A recent experience was taking a moonkin druid to an Onyxia10 run. Another “omg gearscore” spammer, carrying on in raid chat about it as we made our way to the instance. Said moonkin did less dps than our tanks… including our offtank who disconnected halfway through the fight. …

    I see players putting on gear that isn’t very good for them because it makes their gs higher (dps casters and the triumph badge int trinket). I see sub-par players making noise about their “GS” as a way to validate their presence as they die to their own stupid.

    It just so happens to be that I’m not impressed by someone spamming their little recount gearscore list in raid chat while I’m in (or leading) a raid, and will let folks who cause such annoyance die in the fire.

    I had LOLGearscore installed long enough to see what my Gearscore was in my “Heroics gone Fabulous” healing set (4 pieces of tier 2). I found it to be a resource hog and not an adequate indication of skill. You’re probably not a long time reader, and aren’t familiar with the chronicles of the (now departed) Lady of Lag, whom had one of the highest gearscores of the collective, who was a warlock gemmed, geared, and specced correctly yet was incapable of pulling more than 900dps in a 25 man.

    The resource-hogging of gearscore is so bad that Blizzard has throttled inspections in attempt to politely cripple Gearscore in a way that the addon authors clean up their act.

    As for blowing people out of the water while being 10/12?

    That Guild is a group of working adults and students, many of whom work odd shifts or are parents that don’t play until their children are in bed, who play during the wee hours of the morning. The number of people we have access to is limited and things such as one of our core raider’s daughters’ apendix rupturing right before a raid and other real life things (family get togethers, getting married, etc, aka the summer boss) result in us having to take guests who need to learn the fights.

    Several of the players in That Guild who are like me, altoholics, have shown capability of playing well enough level that we score in the top 5 in 25 man pugs while in our 251 gear against people in sanctified gear.

    Given the choice between a guildmate or friends and family channel alt who’s got 3-4 blues or a random pug asking to go on a run and telling me their gearscore, I’m going to take the player not the gear.

    Do you think I would have gotten (what seems to be) the server first (uncredited by ranking sites because we did it in a super pug 30 minutes after our server came up, beating out the offiical first kill by a day) RS kill, solo-healing the shadow realm as a Paladin in mostly 251 gear if I didn’t have some degree of skill? I’ve gotten several offers from guilds that are in the 10/12 hardmodes flavor of ICC25, I can’t join them because of my work schedule.

    Regardless, it would defeat the point of being psudo-anonymous if I were to reveal who I am. I’ve explained it all in the “Why So Anonymous” link at the top of my blog. The TL;DR of it is that by staying anonymous I avoid your lovely personal attack. I believe it is ‘ad hominem tu quoque’, trying to discredit someone’s viewpoints based on personal attacks on the person expressing the viewpoints.

    I could be 12/12 hardmodes, I could have never stepped foot into ICC (you may notice achievements on my sidebar showing otherwise). It doesn’t really matter, as like gearscore, progression or lackthereof is no indication of a person’s intelligence. Save those personal attacks for the Holy Paladin columnist of WOW Insider. You can take what I have to say or you can leave it. It’s your perogative. If you’re upset by what I have to say then I might have hit a nerve. Take a few steps back and be objective.

    If anything, just think of me as This Guy who plays a lot of alts, who’s really a closet girl, that has been raiding since classic, who made it his personal mission to level and learn to play every class with some degree of proficiency as a way of enabling me to be a better, more knowledgable, and therefore easier to follow raid and guild leader. A guy who has chosen to utilize the web hosting he pays for to to make a blog about it.

    Don’t like it? don’t read it.

    Also: Your IP geolocation area code match one of the harassing text messages on my cellphone from an ex-guildmate who faction-transferred to be carried to a Lich King kill and to have a thinly veiled excuse for zone disruption under the guise of peeveepee. Hmmmm.

  10. Misahweha says:

    Nice post! At least you managed to get the song itself worked into the post, unlike me! XD

  11. Zan says:

    It’s a great song. It got stuck in my head while thinking about this post. Cheers.

  12. I laughed so very hard at “I’m mercifully sparing everyone from having to endure yet another episode of your egotistical exhibitionist e-masturbation.”

    Thanks for responding to the topic!

  13. [...] Zan from Altoholic Anonymous [...]

    [WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The comment’s server IP ( doesn’t match the comment’s URL host IP ( and so is spam.

  14. Echo says:

    I see a lot of attacks based on “how cum u aint killd lich king lol” on several bloggers.

    Funnily enough I had a kingslayer in an extended pug raid we’d pulled together who didn’t properly know the mechanics of the fight. Dies to the disease, drops the defile badly, falls off the edge. Its a fight thats become easy to carry people on, especially when you outgear it. I no longer look upon the tag as anything that proves anyone is a good player.

  15. Zan says:

    I guess I could just say, “Server First RS10″ to shut them up?

  16. [...] three strikes rule.  Altaholic Anonymous is a proponent of letting you die in the spirit of “mercifully sparing everyone from having to endure yet another episode of your egotistical exhibition…” among other mistakes and obnoxious behaviors.  Azeroth Apple tries to be patient with [...]